Tom Brady "Football's Fun again"

2020 Patriots Season:
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Oct 25th

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BobDigital

Pro Bowl Player
Serious question : if « wearing them down » leads to multiple SBs, isn’t that much better than losing and « making players feel at home » ? I’d rather cheer for championships than on-the-field celebrations of a player‘s plaque for sticking around 15 years...

Well that isn't really what i'm arguing and if you frame it like that then of course it's better to wear players down if it leads to super bowl wins. What i'm talking about is the Brady effect and how that made guys stick around here who likely wouldn't have. Of course then you have to win without Brady which would be another challenge, but let's assume you had another elite level QB. Also this argument pertains more to the last 3 wins than the first three. They certainly needed both Gronk and Edelman to show up big in all those super bowls. Are they here if not for Brady? I don't think so.

There is also the question of how Brady effected the defensive side of the ball. How many players came here even though it wasn't the most fun place to play because they thought they had a chance to win? How many took discounts to do it? How much of that is due to Brady? It isn't as obvious as Gronk or Edelman but it certainly had an effect. It kind of snowballed on itself. While both BB and Brady made those 6 wins possible I've always fallen much more on the Brady side for various reasons.
 

farn

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Well that isn't really what i'm arguing and if you frame it like that then of course it's better to wear players down if it leads to super bowl wins. What i'm talking about is the Brady effect and how that made guys stick around here who likely wouldn't have. Of course then you have to win without Brady which would be another challenge, but let's assume you had another elite level QB. Also this argument pertains more to the last 3 wins than the first three. They certainly needed both Gronk and Edelman to show up big in all those super bowls. Are they here if not for Brady? I don't think so.

There is also the question of how Brady effected the defensive side of the ball. How many players came here even though it wasn't the most fun place to play because they thought they had a chance to win? How many took discounts to do it? How much of that is due to Brady? It isn't as obvious as Gronk or Edelman but it certainly had an effect. It kind of snowballed on itself. While both BB and Brady made those 6 wins possible I've always fallen much more on the Brady side for various reasons.
It’s fair and logical to give credit to the greatest QB and winner in League history. I agree he played a massive role in the team’s run of success.

Many posters credit Brady at the detriment of BB. His ways, while tough, lead to winning. I am in the camp of « BB is a major factor, not solely a beneficiary of Brady ».
 

TheRainMaker

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
They weren’t that far from having only 1 or 2 rings so it all evens out.
Whatever makes you feel better.

And if that were the case, only winning 1 or 2 would've been absolutely pathetic.
 
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sb1

Pro Bowl Player
Whatever makes you feel better.

And if that were the case, only winning 1 or 2 would've been absolutely pathetic.

not sure what “making me feel better” has to do with anything.

Brady fumbled against the Raiders and got away with a technicality. It was a fumble and we all know it. Including Brady himself by his own admission. So they miss out on their first.

Patriots came back from a 28-3 deficit late in the 3rd quarter and EVERYTHING had to go right for that to happen

Kasay kicked out of bounds giving AV and the offense a chance to get a game winning 3 with a reeling and injured defense

Butler doesn’t make the interception Pats probably lose that one too.

That turns 6 SB wins into 2. If JMac doesn’t make a play on Cooks it might have even been 1. See how easily the “what if’s” can be flipped the other way?
 
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XLIX

Pro Bowl Player
They weren’t that far from having only 1 or 2 rings so it all evens out.
If I could change one play per season (and not even a major change, just something small) then I could arrange for the Patriots to have as many as 10 rings, or as few as zero.
 

PatsFanInVa

PatsFans.com Supporter
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2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
The 'Rona' bringing this to the entire NFL (if there is a) this season. It's gonna be some ugly football.

This. The more opt-outs, the better. We're being driven to take self-evidently wrong-headed chances nationwide to pretend it's all ok. It's not. There's an infectious pathogen around with no cure and no vaccine widely available. Our proof that we're winning is that we're testing more than the other places with enormous outbreaks.... though of course, not nearly enough.

You know how many tests you need if you contact trace your first 15 cases ruthlessly? 15 x their average number of contacts and contacts of contacts, if you get them all at first generation (i.e., no contacts of contacts continuing community spread.) In the hundreds.

We're several months removed. Testing's a game of catchup, useful in press conferences when you're pretending that the name of the game is "saying large irrelevant numbers and pretending they mean something they don't."

Oh yeah and 1 more thing, in case this didn't suck enough. Every new infection is a new chance to mutate. O happy virus!

But yeah let's have "pro infection" and "anti infection" parties.

We're just effin' retahded.

Put me in the "Football when it's safe, not before, thank you, bake some freakin sourdough bread and just chill for a minute" column.
 

Patsgofor4

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
It's clear that some posters here will not reach the acceptance phase of their "Tommy is gone" grief this year, if ever, and will continue to torture those of us who moved on months ago by regurgitating the SAME SH*T that has been discussed in several hundreds of posts throughout the offseason.

"Brady was not appreciated by Belichick."

"Brady made Belichick. Just watch what happens now that he isn't around."

"Brady was failed by Billy the GM."

"Tommy doesn't share any blame for the failures of last year's offense. Do I need to mention his lack of weapons again? No? Well, one more post about that topic can't hurt."

"Brady is the only reason the Pats won 12 games last year."

"Cutting AB was a huge mistake. Tommy deserved to have an elite WR to throw to for once."

"The Tampa offense is going to be so frickin' awesome! Have you guys heard about all of his new weapons? Just in case, I'm gonna list them again for you."

WE GET IT. IN FACT, WE GOT IT MONTHS AGO. SOME HERE AGREE, SOME HERE DISAGREE AND MOST POSTERS HERE WILL NEVER CHANGE THEIR OPINIONS ON THESE BEATEN-TO-DEATH TOPICS.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD CAN WE MOVE ON FROM TOM BRADY. HE'S NOT WALKING THROUGH THAT DOOR AND WHEN HE DOES AGAIN HE'S GOING TO BE OLD(ER) AND GRAY(ER).
 
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PatsFanInVa

PatsFans.com Supporter
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2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
It’s fair and logical to give credit to the greatest QB and winner in League history. I agree he played a massive role in the team’s run of success.

Many posters credit Brady at the detriment of BB. His ways, while tough, lead to winning. I am in the camp of « BB is a major factor, not solely a beneficiary of Brady ».

we can speculate every day and twice on Sunday about the relative roles of BB and TFB. But barring some slam dunk -- like 3 years of one of them winning rings every year and the other one disappearing from this point forward into oblivion -- I don't think we ever get an answer (just a lot of good arguments to get into once we can scream in bars again.)

OTOH, once we have whatever we're going to call normal seasons again, we can at least have the conversation... up until now it's been 20 years of impenetrable hot air all around. Anybody with certainty on the subject at least right now strikes me as hubristic.
 

Patsfanin Philly

Pro Bowl Player
not sure what “making me feel better” has to do with anything.

Brady fumbled against the Raiders and got away with a technicality. It was a fumble and we all know it. Including Brady himself by his own admission. So they miss out on their first.

Patriots came back from a 28-3 deficit late in the 3rd quarter and EVERYTHING had to go right for that to happen

Kasay kicked out of bounds giving AV and the offense a chance to get a game winning 3 with a reeling and injured defense

Butler doesn’t make the interception Pats probably lose that one too.

That turns 6 SB wins into 2. If JMac doesn’t make a play on Cooks it might have even been 1. See how easily the “what if’s” can be flipped the other way?
And if Tyree doesn't make the helmet catch or Manningham make the catch of the year, there's two more.....
 

sb1

Pro Bowl Player
And if Tyree doesn't make the helmet catch or Manningham make the catch of the year, there's two more.....

Yup. The what if’s definitely go in both directions. Butler plays in SB LII or it face guarding wasn’t made up by the refs who knows?

The Manningham catch didn’t really bother me looking back. I didn’t trust that defense to stop anyone anyway. In that game the Giants 32nd ranked rush offense ran all over us.

It was a great catch but the Jones catch was way more spectacular and arguably should have been a difference maker.
 
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