OT: Sean Payton wearing Goodell clown shirt during press conference

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Hercules Rockefeller

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
You have to love this narrative spun by the NFL and its media apologists blaming the victim for complaining about being victimized.
In this narrative that you are right now spinning, is the "victim" Sean Payton? If so, I'm genuinely curious as to who in highly visible media has taken the stance that he is to blame for the loss. He's getting an entirely free pass because of one bad call. A call which, based on the tone of your post, calls into question the entire system that is the NFL. Never mind that the Jaguars cried similarly over the Dion Lewis fumble last year, or any number of other notable tantrums from past teams that lost, i.e., did not do enough to win. No, this particular lack of pass interference is the one that topples the whole Jenga tower, and grown men like Sean Payton are being Victimized by it.

Goodness. So much of the Patriots success, and fans' pride in it, is based on the team's philosophy of not making excuses, focusing on what can be controlled, and moving forward to the next play, next man up, next game, we're on to Cincinnati. And here we have a decent contingent of those that champion that ethos and mock the teams who lack it coming together to bake casseroles for Sean Payton. Because he wore a shirt that makes fun of a guy who is bad. I hope Sean can find a good support group to get him through this trying time, anything to shift blame from kicking away yet another chance with his all-time great QB.
 

borisman

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Not that Bill needed it, but I'm sure Payton made every bit of his scouting information available to Bill this past week.

He wants the Rams to lose more than I think we want to win :D
Nice! I just want Payton to tell BB what exactly he saw to run Kamara out of backfield for a pass knowing Littleton would be in coverage. I could see James White abusing them in the same way if there's a look LAR has that gives away their coverage.
 

borisman

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
if you are going to do it. do it. what's the point of covering the shirt up if you're trying to make a statement?
Maybe he was going to but was talked out of it, possibly, by the owner or someone else. At least he left the top button unbuttoned that gave away his undershirt.
 

Kenneth Sims

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In this narrative that you are right now spinning, is the "victim" Sean Payton? If so, I'm genuinely curious as to who in highly visible media has taken the stance that he is to blame for the loss. He's getting an entirely free pass because of one bad call. A call which, based on the tone of your post, calls into question the entire system that is the NFL. Never mind that the Jaguars cried similarly over the Dion Lewis fumble last year, or any number of other notable tantrums from past teams that lost, i.e., did not do enough to win. No, this particular lack of pass interference is the one that topples the whole Jenga tower, and grown men like Sean Payton are being Victimized by it.

Goodness. So much of the Patriots success, and fans' pride in it, is based on the team's philosophy of not making excuses, focusing on what can be controlled, and moving forward to the next play, next man up, next game, we're on to Cincinnati. And here we have a decent contingent of those that champion that ethos and mock the teams who lack it coming together to bake casseroles for Sean Payton. Because he wore a shirt that makes fun of a guy who is bad. I hope Sean can find a good support group to get him through this trying time, anything to shift blame from kicking away yet another chance with his all-time great QB.
Numerous commentators I’ve heard on radio and TV spout the same argument as you that Payton, the Saints and their fans should just shut up and take it. They weren’t victimised by the call but rather the inability to correct it because of pure foolishness. There’s a mechanism in place to review whether a player was down, feet were in bounds, or the ball crossed the goal line. To not use that same mechanism to be able to determine if a player broke the rules of the game to interfere with another player catching a pass, is pure unmitigated foolishness.

None of the arguments against it hold water. Holding, false starts and pass interference are not “subjective” calls. Subjective calls are whether something is art or whether something is beautiful or ugly. All of us have different opinions on those things. Beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder. But pass interference isn’t, it’s based on objective criteria just like all the the other calls that are reviewable. Ideally, every official using the criteria of the rules should come to the same conclusion as to whether it was a penalty or not.

You seem to have something against Payton. Bias is a cancer to sound judgment. I’m not for or against him or the Saints. I am just pro common sense. I’m pro fanbases such as Patriots’ fans not always hearing from fans of other teams how officials favour our team or us complaining the league is against us. Letting everything be reviewable would go a good way to removing all of the foolishness.
 

1960Pats

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Letting everything be reviewable would go a good way to removing all of the foolishness.
I've always been in favor of getting the call right, no matter if it's for or against my team. Allowing those type of calls to be reviewed is a simple solution to a complicated problem. Maybe the fact that Belichick is a proponent of that is a reason we haven't seen it yet.

And it isn't just challenges that should be reviewed. In any case where there's a change of possession the play should be reviewed. Just because a team doesn't have a challenge left shouldn't be a factor.
 

Plunkett2Vataha

Practice Squad Player
Sean Payton is a 55 year old man who is whining about how unfair everything is, because one call didn't go his way. He doesn't have to discuss how his stacked team blew a 13-0 lead at home to a team they're better than, because one play that ended in an incomplete pass should have been called interference. That they blew an opportunity in OT does not matter, when you can stomp your feet about one bad call.

Just because he got suspended for something trumped up doesn't make him any less of a whiny clown. Dumb enough to send emails saying things like "let's get our story straight" while under investigation and so composed under pressure that he was mocking Vikings fans on the sidelines moments before his team allowed Stefan Diggs' miracle play last year. Way to focus on the important stuff in big moments, kiddo.

I get that he doesn't like a guy we don't like. But if any other team had players sending open letters to Goodell reading "Sir why haven't you answered my request for a do-over?" because of a bad call, and their head coach was publicly crying about it, we'd rightfully be lumping Payton in with other whining criers. We'd be laughing at him.

Join me in laughing at VisorBro, a red-faced and whiny bro who should probably worry about keeping his head during big moments, but would rather cry and shout No Fair and wear funny shirts. Forever aggrieved and forever wronged. It's actually everyone else's fault that he's won one more playoff game than Chuck Pagano in the last ten years.
I respect your opinion as it does have some strong, valid points. I live ten minutes from the Superdome, and have spent the first half of my life living 30 minutes from Foxboro. I am a Patriots fan first, and a Saints fan second. Now that my bio is out of the way, let me elaborate a bit on Payton. Yes, he does project a smug, arrogant image to the rest of the country. Yes, a lot of people do dislike him. BUT, he is beloved in the New Orleans area and is a pretty good coach. Payton wasn't just whining about the one play at the end (and he definitely is whining, and who wouldn't). Payton is also pissed about the earlier third down defensive holding/pass interference penalty (take your pick) that wasn't called on the first play of the 4th quarter. That was just as egregious a non-call as the one at the end of the game. It would have given the Saints a first down at either the Rams 42 (defensive holding) or Rams 39 (pass interference). If you get a chance, look at that play and tell me if you don't think it should have been flagged. Pretty bad non-call. Instead, the Saints punted the ball. They were also upset on the O/T interception. After Brees' arm is hit, Fowler's follow-through hits the QB in the face. This wasn't as terrible as the first two non-calls, but I'm just including it to show why Payton and New Orleans are so upset about the BS officiating late in the game. Hey, to be fair, I'm just as pissed about the terrible job the officials did in the Patriots-Chiefs game. You know damn right well the NFL was dreaming of a KC-LA Super Bowl...
 

TB_Helmet

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Numerous commentators I’ve heard on radio and TV spout the same argument as you that Payton, the Saints and their fans should just shut up and take it. They weren’t victimised by the call but rather the inability to correct it because of pure foolishness. There’s a mechanism in place to review whether a player was down, feet were in bounds, or the ball crossed the goal line. To not use that same mechanism to be able to determine if a player broke the rules of the game to interfere with another player catching a pass, is pure unmitigated foolishness.

None of the arguments against it hold water. Holding, false starts and pass interference are not “subjective” calls. Subjective calls are whether something is art or whether something is beautiful or ugly. All of us have different opinions on those things. Beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder. But pass interference isn’t, it’s based on objective criteria just like all the the other calls that are reviewable. Ideally, every official using the criteria of the rules should come to the same conclusion as to whether it was a penalty or not.

You seem to have something against Payton. Bias is a cancer to sound judgment. I’m not for or against him or the Saints. I am just pro common sense. I’m pro fanbases such as Patriots’ fans not always hearing from fans of other teams how officials favour our team or us complaining the league is against us. Letting everything be reviewable would go a good way to removing all of the foolishness.
Holding and pass interference are absolutely not objective calls.
 

Hercules Rockefeller

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
1)Numerous commentators I’ve heard on radio and TV spout the same argument as you that Payton, the Saints and their fans should just shut up and take it.

2) Holding, false starts and pass interference are not “subjective” calls.
1) Yes, they should. You are acting like something was stolen from them. They got the ball in overtime and threw an interception. The only move that does not involve stomping feet and moping around like a teenager that has been grounded is the only real option they have. I mock Payton for choosing the least effective, most immature route. They aren't doing a do-over, and life isn't always fair.

2) Oh boy. Yes, the most subjective calls in football (and also false starts, strangely lumped in here) are actually not at all subjective. Very persuasive argument, Ken.

Which brings me to the Bias is the Poison The Irrational Man Sees As Tonic portion of your post, which i've not done the dignity of properly quoting because of its absurdity in relation to all else that you've written on this. My "bias" is rather a pretty rigid consistency. I'm not the one letting my feelings about a t-shirt or finding Payton a fun, rakish coach change the fact that he's making a buffoon of himself. I'm not going to call a grown up a victim over such low stakes, either. You can't call someone else biased in their thinking, then advocate changing the rules because you want people to stop complaining that the Pats get calls. That you think you could somehow legislate people's feelings is baffling to me.

Did you support Bill Polian whining to change the rules after the Colts didn't do enough to win? Or the Raiders Tuck Rule tears? Or Harbaugh because he didn't know the rules?
 

Hammer of Thor

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if you are going to do it. do it. what's the point of covering the shirt up if you're trying to make a statement?
He’s trying to make a passive aggressive statement. The guy will be suspended and face a ridiculously heavy fine if he actually wore it as his only shirt. He’s making his statement in a way that those who are in the know (like Pats fans) will know, but gives him plausible deniability when the Goodell comes after him (“it wasn’t the clown shirt, it was another blue shirt I have”) and makes the Clown look like more of an idiot if he tries to take action against Payton.

Belichick takes passive aggressive actions too. The entire Hoodie look was a passive aggressive response to the coaches being given mandated uniforms by the league.
 

PatsFanSince74

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I don't know how any Pats fan could hate him after stuff like this (no sarcasm)



Thanks for the memory!

I was outside the courthouse the day of the second clip. Didn't get there until the afternoon but waited for hours and worked my way into the press pen and got close enough to Brady to shout (you can hear me on one of the tapes) "We love you Tommy! One more for the thumb, Tommy!" as he got into his truck to leave. I was no more than ten feet from him, so I'm pretty sure he heard me as my "outside voice" is really loud.
 

ALP

Pro Bowl Player
He’s trying to make a passive aggressive statement. The guy will be suspended and face a ridiculously heavy fine if he actually wore it as his only shirt. He’s making his statement in a way that those who are in the know (like Pats fans) will know, but gives him plausible deniability when the Goodell comes after him (“it wasn’t the clown shirt, it was another blue shirt I have”) and makes the Clown look like more of an idiot if he tries to take action against Payton.

Belichick takes passive aggressive actions too. The entire Hoodie look was a passive aggressive response to the coaches being given mandated uniforms by the league.
i dont think these should be considered passive aggressive, this is a bit different, this is more like being coy
 

captain stone

Pro Bowl Player
You have to love this narrative spun by the NFL and its media apologists blaming the victim for complaining about being victimized.

Payton, the Saints organization and Saint fans have every right to be outraged because this should never have happened. Coaches should have had the right to challenge everything years ago. It’s an embarrassment to the NFL that they can’t.

The NFL needs to adopt a replay system allowing everything to be challenged this offseason, and, if they don’t, we should all question their motives for not doing so. Game length arguments are nonsense. There are so many ways the whole replay system can be streamlined as well as communication amongst officials can be brought into the 21st century to save time. We live in a time where people communicate with each other by text while being in the same room, but NFL officials still have to walk across the field to talk with each other.

Competitive integrity is a bigger threat to the future of the NFL than even head injuries. It’s already a running joke that games are fixed. If owners aren’t concerned about that enough to act when a simple fix exists, again, we should question their motives not just their intellect.
Very, very well-said.

Everybody should prepare themselves for the biggest screw-job-officiated championship game
in league history, if that's what it takes for Los Angeles to have a trophy to show the investors.
 

Kenneth Sims

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Very, very well-said.

Everybody should prepare themselves for the biggest screw-job-officiated championship game
in league history, if that's what it takes for Los Angeles to have a trophy to show the investors.
And absolutely no one will complain about it but us. Then, within 5 minutes, the narrative will be spun that we’re an entitled fan base that had it coming.
 

Hercules Rockefeller

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Very, very well-said.

Everybody should prepare themselves for the biggest screw-job-officiated championship game
in league history, if that's what it takes for Los Angeles to have a trophy to show the investors.
Lol. The best part will be when you're back here shouting this same nonsense in short order. I hope you can at least enjoy the good times, Captain, and that you can hear and see everything fine while wearing your tin hat.
 
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