Opt-Outs

2020 Patriots Season:
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Sep 27th

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PatsFanInVa

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I only have 2 minutes. Question: We know there's an apparently very small chance of death for an athlete in his 20s through early 40s of death from coronavirus.

We know pretty much about those rates.

But we are hearing more and more about permanent health effects even of moderate cases.

I am for players having the choice to opt out, of course. I am only wondering whether it might be wise to root for your faves to do so.

I don't think there will be a season, and not a long one if there is. But what if there is? what are everyone's thoughts on assessing long-term health risk?
 

Ring 6

PatsFans.com Wall of Fame Member
I only have 2 minutes. Question: We know there's an apparently very small chance of death for an athlete in his 20s through early 40s of death from coronavirus.

We know pretty much about those rates.

But we are hearing more and more about permanent health effects even of moderate cases.

I am for players having the choice to opt out, of course. I am only wondering whether it might be wise to root for your faves to do so.

I don't think there will be a season, and not a long one if there is. But what if there is? what are everyone's thoughts on assessing long-term health risk?
Wouldn’t this approach lead to wanting players to quit because of the risk of brain trauma and CTE? It’s much greater than the risk of COVID.

To me, they are players and their play is my concern. Their health and their personal life and decisions are their concern and not my business as someone who’s only relationship to them is that they landed on the team I root for.
 

Joker

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the crazed lunatic from Va. just can't stop his pathological fear mongering....ask the doc to put you in a cryo-chamber until 2050...:zzz:
 

dreighver

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About as "pathological" as harassing someone on an online forum. YMMV.
 

Joker

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PatsFans.com Supporter
About as "pathological" as harassing someone on an online forum. YMMV.
that's an impossibility...he has me on ignore. I WILL continue to point out his pathology every time he displays it, if that's OK with you.
 

dreighver

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
I only have 2 minutes. Question: We know there's an apparently very small chance of death for an athlete in his 20s through early 40s of death from coronavirus.

We know pretty much about those rates.

But we are hearing more and more about permanent health effects even of moderate cases.

I am for players having the choice to opt out, of course. I am only wondering whether it might be wise to root for your faves to do so.

I don't think there will be a season, and not a long one if there is. But what if there is? what are everyone's thoughts on assessing long-term health risk?
This is a perfectly reasonable post and is spot-on. Physically fit young people are less likely to die from COVID relative to the rest of the population, but survivors may have long-term health issues as a result; this is becoming more and more evident.

Fans interested in seeing the teams and players they support remain healthy, happy, and able to play in the future, should very much hope that said teams/players don't get COVID given the risks/outcomes associated with it.

For those who feel the information you share is overly negative and/or unrealistically cynical, I would suggest they talk to any of the 154K families in the United States who have lost a loved one.

Or better yet, go engage with the world as you would normally. The idea that this is overblown is contingent on one of two assumptions: 1.) I won't get it in the first place, and/or, 2.) If I do get, it won't be a big deal. Okay. So put those assumptions to the test. Go live your life and report back.

FWIW, 34.2K people in the United States died of flu during the 2018-2019 flu season; 154K people in the United States have died from COVID in 4-5 months.
 

dreighver

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PatsFans.com Supporter
that's an impossibility...he has me on ignore. I WILL continue to point out his pathology every time he displays it, if that's OK with you.
Of course it's okay with me. You have every right to post whatever you'd like on this forum, as does PFinVA.

PFinVA's pathology is raising the alarm about COVID at every turn. Your pathology is calling out PFinVA for raising the alarm about COVID. My pathology is calling you out for calling out ... you get the point.

Having a pathology isn't the issue; we all have our own 'thing'.

IMO it comes down to the legitimacy of one's 'thing', and I'm in the boat that it's 100% reasonable to be terrified of COVID. I'm 25 and scared about getting this sh*t.
 

Bradybranch

Practice Squad Player
So far we have seen lots of athletes get covid, recover, and return. I think the Sox pitcher E-rod is having issues, but should be ok long term.
 

moosekill

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
Of course it's okay with me. You have every right to post whatever you'd like on this forum, as does PFinVA.

PFinVA's pathology is raising the alarm about COVID at every turn. Your pathology is calling out PFinVA for raising the alarm about COVID. My pathology is calling you out for calling out ... you get the point.

Having a pathology isn't the issue; we all have our own 'thing'.

IMO it comes down to the legitimacy of one's 'thing', and I'm in the boat that it's 100% reasonable to be terrified of COVID. I'm 25 and scared about getting this sh*t.
You are as likely to die from the flu as covid at your age, so if you are equally afraid of getting the flu you are spot on. If you don't really care about the flu but are scared to death of dying from Covid-19 then you are uninformed.
 

Triumph

Pro Bowl Player
Do people actually believe that "rooting" or "wishful thinking" for a particular outcome has any bearing whatsoever on the outcome of professional sports? In another context R E A L I T Y.

Nothing that you do has any effect on spectator sports. The players are not going to call you up for your feedback on matters.
 

One-If-By-Sea

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
This is a perfectly reasonable post and is spot-on. Physically fit young people are less likely to die from COVID relative to the rest of the population, but survivors may have long-term health issues as a result; this is becoming more and more evident.
Can you point me to clinical reviews that show long-term health issues as a result of COVID-19? Serious question. I Googled it, looked on Google Scholar and all I can find are instances of inflammation that linger, but no evidence of long-term effects. I keep seeing this written in the forum but I can not find any supporting documentation. Someone posted a German study that showed lingering inflammation in older individuals, but there is nothing in the study that states the inflammation causes long-term scarring/damage. Still looking for a peer-reviewed journal article or equivalent. I realize it might be early days for a study, so if the evidence is anecdotal I understand, but repeated anecdotal evidence is not "more and more" evidence.

As stated above E Rodrgiuez has lingering inflammation (myocarditis), but at this point is expected to fully recover, albeit a delayed recovery. It is possible that E Rod will not recover, but to date there is no data to suggest that.
 

DarrylS

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2019 Weekly Picks Winner
We really do not know or completely understand COVID-19.. so much information to synthesize and make sense of. On any given day there is anecdotal evidence of it impacting children, teens, young adults.. then there are reports of long term effects, difficult to have scientific studies as there seem to be new variables daily.

As much as we seem to know, there is much we do not know.. for many of these guys any season could be their last season, if they are concerned about either themselves or their families so much so that it will be a distraction and possibly effect their play opting out seems reasonable.

I have 0 confidence that there will be an NFL season.. the game and activity of players lends itself to spreading COVID-19 if someone is positive...
 

Joker

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PatsFans.com Supporter
You're 25, Dreighver? My only advice to you is "question authority". As far as anything else, I'm an old ba$tard just trying to see another tomorrow. What jerks my chain is this other old ba$tard constantly braying like a jacka$$ thousands of times all over this board "no season!!! We're gonna die!!! it's all bad!!!". I know his game. I've had the distinct displeasure to deal with passive aggressive know-everythings like this " perfesser wannabe" many times over the years. He's never going to change his "sky is falling" mindset and I'm not going to change how I feel about it every dyam day he posts the same blithering paranoia.

BTW...I enjoy tilting at windmills...clears out the clutter
 

betterthanthealternative

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Can you point me to clinical reviews that show long-term health issues as a result of COVID-19? Serious question. I Googled it, looked on Google Scholar and all I can find are instances of inflammation that linger, but no evidence of long-term effects. I keep seeing this written in the forum but I can not find any supporting documentation. Someone posted a German study that showed lingering inflammation in older individuals, but there is nothing in the study that states the inflammation causes long-term scarring/damage. Still looking for a peer-reviewed journal article or equivalent. I realize it might be early days for a study, so if the evidence is anecdotal I understand, but repeated anecdotal evidence is not "more and more" evidence.

As stated above E Rodrgiuez has lingering inflammation (myocarditis), but at this point is expected to fully recover, albeit a delayed recovery. It is possible that E Rod will not recover, but to date there is no data to suggest that.
With understanding the impact of C19, we have barely gotten the rocket off the launching pad. Let's at least get close to the moon before we ask for certainty.
 

mgteich

PatsFans.com Veteran
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I may be naive. However, Cannon or Andrews have considerable risk to their health by risking COVID. The risk is considerable for players who play the season. I agree that those in top health who take precautions when leaving the facilities are in good shape to play, considering that the risk is low. As has been said, the risk of injury and LT damage is already considerable.

I don't know the health concerns of the others. Is it reasonable for Hightower or Chung to skip a season. This makes little sense to me. Folks say that this might be Chung's last season. That is even more reason to take all precautions and play.

I PRESUME that there is a hotel that the team has a valuable to them, where everyone is tested. If there isn't there should be.
 

dreighver

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
You are as likely to die from the flu as covid at your age, so if you are equally afraid of getting the flu you are spot on. If you don't really care about the flu but are scared to death of dying from Covid-19 then you are uninformed.
Neglecting to mention the longer-term outcomes observed in some COVID survivors is a pretty big omission.

Dead-or-alive is not the only relevant metric.
 
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