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BGC 2020 OT/PTP Thread

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by BaconGrundleCandy, Sep 1, 2019.

  1. JerseyShore99

    JerseyShore99 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Biadasz is of interest to me late on Day 2, early on day 3

    6'4", 315, seems super solid, won the award for Nation's Best Center, 3 year starter for the Jonathan Taylor Show in Madison, believe he fell due to health concerns
     
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  2. zimmy

    zimmy Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I've started to dig into the offensive tackle class. I agree with what others have said that this is a really strong group. I assume Wirfs, Wills, Thomas and Becton will be out of our range but I like Jones and Wilson a lot at the bottom of the 1st/top of the second.

    Josh Jones is really talented and I don't think the gap is that big between him and the top 4. He's just well rounded in pass and run. Could see him being our pick at 23 if we are forced to stick there. That could allow us to possibly trade Thuney for a 2nd and move Wynn inside to guard.

    Wilson from Georgia is an absolute beast in the run game, really drives guys off the ball. He's also really young (and a little raw), certainly has huge room for development which is exciting. Not sure if he can play left tackle but I could certainly see him taking over from Cannon after this year. It might even allow us to trade Cannon for a draft pick now.
     
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  3. captain stone

    captain stone Pro Bowl Player

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    Just came home from a car ride and was listening to NFL Radio on Sirius XM, hosted by two guys from PFF...they had Joshua Jones ranked higher than Becton as their #4 OT behind Andrew Thomas, Wirfs & Wills in that order...Becton's almost certainly a RT-Only, so how high should a team wait to draft him? Keep in mind that Jawaan Taylor, one of the very best OTs - and OLmen in general - from last year's draft lasted until the 2nd round because of among other things his perceived lack of RT-LT versatility...
     
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  4. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

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    Biadasz—not Badazz, as I’ve been writing— is an impact player and a natural fit for the Patriots.
     
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  5. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    If his shoulder injury is not chronic. Bb has the medicals and has to make that call.

    but know there are a lot of good options if biadasz does not check out medically.

    I really like crushenberry of LSU. He had a good year in the sec. he is not a superior athlete and I do not know if he can make proper line calls or adapt to a zone blocking scheme, but when goes forward, big defensive players go backwards.

    because crushenberry played so well and covered for others mistakes, Lewis, who is not that great a player, will get drafted.
     
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  6. Flash

    Flash Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    The Athletic's Bob McGinn’s NFL Draft Series: Scouts on top offensive linemen

    Accentuating the positive is a way of life for analysts drawing a paycheck from networks that televise National Football League games — and from the league itself. Happy talk makes friends and generates hope while obscuring the stark reality of every draft day.

    Jason Licht, the general manager of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, sliced well beyond the Pollyannish last week in a briefing with reporters.

    “Across the league, it’s 50-50 whether any first-round pick is going to be a player or not three years down the road,” he said. “It’s 50-50 from the first pick down to the 32nd pick.”

    When applied to the tackle position, regarded as one of the best in this draft, it means two of the four players expected to be selected in the first 15 to 20 picks figure to be disappointments, if not busts, by 2023. That grim analysis apparently is why GMs get paid the big bucks.

    At least almost everyone is in the same pressurized boat when it comes to tackles.

    “There’s no team that feels good about its two tackles,” an AFC personnel man said. “Maybe one or two teams in the league. Everyone needs to get better.

    “Where are you going to get them? You’re not going to get a tackle in the third round or the fourth round. If you want a guy, you’ve got to get a guy.”

    Since time immemorial, the winners will be the two teams that pick the two tackles who can play and the losers will be the two teams that pick the two tackles who can’t, at least according to Licht’s viewpoint that is widely shared in the league. The prospects/suspects presumably at the head of the class, in alphabetical order, are Louisville’s Mekhi Becton, Georgia’s Andrew Thomas, Alabama’s Jedrick Wills and Iowa’s Tristan Wirfs. (Wirfs is ranked below in our Guard category).

    “It has talent, but it has questions,” the AFC exec said of the tackle group. “Andrew Thomas had a couple average games late in the season but early played really well. Wirfs is physically gifted, but it doesn’t always translate. With Becton, consistency is the question. Wills, I think he could play left tackle, but that’s going to take some time.”

    An AFC personnel director rated Wills No. 1 because he sees him as a complete player. As for the others, he said, “Wirfs has unbelievable athleticism but needs to finish a little better.

    “If Becton is motivated enough he can be the best of the group. But he’s going to have to find the work ethic, drive and the coachability that NFL teams will demand.

    “Thomas is athletically very gifted. He’s probably got to work on his anchor and his strength a little bit.”

    Then there was this from another executive who underscored the crapshoot the draft is at every position.

    “I think the tackle class is really overrated,” he said. “There’s not a great one, not a Joe Thomas, in the group. All these guys have their warts.”

    Part of the problem is the top four tackles all spent just three seasons in college. Offensive line was the last position to see large numbers of underclassmen declaring for the draft. A general feeling persisted for years that offensive linemen needed as much physical maturation as possible before going pro.

    In 2000, just two of the top offensive linemen were juniors. Marvel Smith, a tackle from Arizona State, and Cosey Coleman, a guard from Tennessee, were taken in the second round. In 2010, just three of the top 10 vote-getters in my poll of the top offensive linemen were juniors. Two tackles, Rutgers’ Anthony Davis and Iowa’s Bryan Bulaga, were taken in the first round as was center Maurkice Pouncey of Florida.

    In 2020, 10 of the top 11 vote-getters in the same poll asking scouts to rank their top offensive linemen regardless of position were underclassmen. The only senior, Houston’s Josh Jones, finished eighth in the voting.

    “If you’re decent now it’s three years and you’re coming out,” one scout said. “Some guys redshirt and come out in two. Not a lot of them stay in college anymore.”

    It’s almost reached the point where if a top player plays out his collegiate eligibility something must be wrong with him.

    “They’ve been thrust up there as the unquestioned top four because they’re juniors,” said a personnel man. “The media just kind of does that with juniors. They just assume these guys are great prospects because they’re coming out early, and they’re not.”

    My poll of 17 personnel people over the last two weeks showed four juniors packed together at the top with almost no separation. Scouts were asked to rank their top six offensive linemen, with a first-place vote worth 6 points, a second worth 5 and so on. Thomas led with 78 points and seven firsts but tight on his heels were Becton (75, five), Wills (71, two) and Wirfs (71, three).

    “There’s no consensus with these guys,” an NFC personnel director said. “We have different orders between scouts, coaches. It’s kind of your flavor. You probably will get six tackles (in the first round) but there’s only four you feel good about. Then it falls off.”

    There have been only two instances in my polling over the last 12 years in which the vote for the best offensive linemen had so little clarity at the top.

    In 2017, Alabama’s Cam Robinson led with 59 points followed by Utah’s Garett Bolles with 57 and Wisconsin’s Ryan Ramczyk with 53. In 2009, Baylor’s Jason Smith led with 74 points followed by Alabama’s Andre Smith with 70 and Virginia’s Eugene Monroe with 64.

    Ramczyk, the No. 32 pick, made first-team All-Pro this season for New Orleans whereas Bolles (No. 20, Denver) and Robinson (No. 34, Jacksonville) remain below-average starters. A decade before, Monroe (No. 10, Jacksonville) enjoyed a slightly better career than Andre Smith (No. 6, Cincinnati), although neither made a Pro Bowl, whereas Jason Smith (No. 2, St. Louis) saw his career ruined by concussions.

    Before the draft in 2009, Chicago GM Jerry Angelo offered perspective that rings true today.

    “One thing about tackles, the reason they go in the first round is the value,” said Angelo. “Not necessarily because they’re the 25th, 26th-best player in the draft. It’s the value of the position. That’s what speaks volumes.”

    There was a precipitous drop off to fifth place in this year’s poll. That was Cesar Ruiz, who totaled 16 points. Others receiving votes were Austin Jackson (12), Isaiah Wilson (10), Josh Jones (five), Ezra Cleveland (four), Lloyd Cushenberry (four), Matt Hennessy (four), Hakeem Adeniji (three), Matt Peart (two) and Robert Hunt and Shane LeMieux, each one.

    Meanwhile, at center, some teams like the group while others don’t. There seemed to be close to unanimity when it came to guard, where one team emerged from meetings with merely three draftable players.

    “The bar is so low for centers and guards in the NFL,” said one executive. “People are just so desperate for bodies.

    “There’s a premium on the D-line. So, if you have any degree of size of ability at all, they put you on defense. So you’re always getting the seconds for those interior spots (on the offensive line).

    “The way the game is played in college, you’re in a two-point stance. It’s all hurry-up, no-huddle. If you can just engage your opponent, it’s a win. The line play is so bad. They want to run 99 plays and wear the defense down. If they can get three guys to stay upright in the middle, that’s good enough.”

    Another evaluator drily observed, “They all get drafted if they’re offensive linemen.”

    (continued in next reply)
     
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  7. Flash

    Flash Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    TACKLES
    1. ANDREW THOMAS, Georgia (6-5, 315, 5.17, 1): Thomas started at RT as a true freshman and at LT the past two seasons. “I thought he was the most natural and productive of all these guys,” one scout said. “He rarely gets beat. Has long arms (36 1/8 inches), and he plays with ‘em. Redirects well.” Thomas is a three-sport athlete from Lithonia, Ga. “Never have an issue with him,” another scout said. “This kid will pick up the system immediately. Cannot say enough good stuff about him. He’s a legit starter right away.” Scored 28 on the 12-minute, 50-question Wonderlic intelligence test. “Would like to see a more aggressive finish,” a third scout said. “Doesn’t move defenders with power. Considering his athleticism, he’s on the ground a little more than I expected. Will need to get stronger in his drive blocks. I have questions about his skill set.” Some scouts say his feet are more than adequate for a LT. Others disagree. “Struggles against speed,” a fourth scout said. “Some of the pass-pro deficiencies make you want to think he’s more of a right tackle. What keeps you in the boat with Andrew is that everyone at Georgia really says high things about his football makeup and character. It’s an intangible-based position. At minimum, you’ll have a really good, solid starter because he’ll do all the right things.”

    2. MEKHI BECTON, Louisville (6-7 ½, 357, 5.11, 1): Started at RT as a true freshman and at LT the past two seasons. “He has the highest ceiling,” said one scout. “You shouldn’t have the initial lateral quickness at that size that this guy has. There’s some rawness there (but) he could be a perennial Pro Bowl type.” That personnel man tabbed Becton as the No. 1 lineman in the draft. So did this scout, who said, “You know what? You can’t get around him. He’s athletic enough to block DBs in space. He can bend his lower body. He has strong hands. One concern I had was he was knock-kneed. You can’t say he’s Trent Williams. He’s like Orlando Brown (6-8, 340, 5.68) of the Ravens.” Another scout compared him to former Viking LT Bryant McKinnie (6-8, 343, 5.38), the seventh pick in 2002. “But he’s tougher than McKinnie,” the scout said. “He doesn’t play hard all the time…but he takes care of business. He’s been as high as 388, as low as 350. Will fatigue a little bit. Trustworthy. A teddy bear. He’s a pretty squared-away guy.” He matured significantly as a player and learned to play through injury in 2019. “He’s not one of those overweight, lazy guys,” a third scout said. “He can move and he competes. He’s what everybody’s looking for.” He posted a Wonderlic score of 15, and his arms were 35 5/8, hands were 10 ¾. “Know why I have him fifth (on his vote)?” said a fourth scout. “Because he loves to cook and eat more than he loves frigging football…He can be a freak now. You could hit on him. You know what he is? He’s Trent Brown (6-8 ½, 353, 5.26).” Becton is from Highland Springs, Va.

    3. JEDRICK WILLS, Alabama (6-4, 312, 5.06, 1): Wills, from Lexington, Ky., improved as much if not more than any player in the draft last season, according to one scout. “He’s got feet, he’s got flexibility and he competes really hard,” said another scout. “Really good with his drive block. Square pass protection. Runs and pulls with ease. Really light on his feet. Pretty good in space. His height is OK.” The third-year junior played RT only, protecting Tua Tagovailoa’s blind side. “I think he does have left-tackle feet but I don’t think he’s a left tackle,” said a third scout. “You may try to kick him to left but people don’t know how hard that is, especially when you haven’t done it.” Two-year starter. “I like Wills as a right tackle or guard because he’s tough and plays hard, but he’s not a left tackle,” another scout said. “He needed extra time there.” Scored 9 on his first attempt at the Wonderlic, which teams traditionally have regarded as the most telling score, but he scored 23 on his second try. “We interviewed him twice,” said one scout. “He wouldn’t scare you off. I would say it (the Wonderlic) is not (a big concern).” He produced the best vertical jump (34 ½) of the tackles. “I don’t get the whole excitement with him, and I’ve watched a ton of tape,” another scout said. “I don’t think he plays very athletically. He’s not a finisher. He doesn’t redirect very well. Not a strong, tough guy. He worked out well. I just don’t see the movement, finish, talent of a first-round guy.”

    4. AUSTIN JACKSON, USC (6-5, 322, 5.08, 1-2): Jackson is a third-year junior with two seasons as the starter at LT. “As far as the way he looks – the frame, the long arms, the bubble, the bend – you’re, like, ‘OK, this guy’s going to be really good,’” said one scout. “But he’s a hands-outside guy, which is kind of hard to fix. With his hands going outside and bending at the waist, he had a terrible outing against (A.J.) Epenesa in the bowl game. He’s the boom-or-bust of this group. He’s either going to hit big and be a starter for a long time, or he’ll bust out and people will say, ‘He wasn’t any different than I thought.’ Very, very inconsistent.’” In July, he became a bone marrow donor for his sister Autumn. “He basically saved her life,” another scout said. “They corkscrewed into his hip, twice on the left and once on the right, to get the marrow out. When he recovered his hip flexibility was not what it used to be. He lost like 25 pounds. If you look at the early tape you go, ‘What the hell? This guy is thinking about coming out?’ He was getting beat on the edges because he couldn’t move laterally. It wasn’t until the seventh or eighth game where he was starting to feel normal. His best football is ahead of him. Awesome kid.” He posted a 25 on the Wonderlic and his broad jump of 9-7 led tackles. “He makes run and pass look easy,” another scout said. “Guy doesn’t work up a sweat. Has the feet to play left tackle. Needs a little work.” Added another executive: “One thing to think about, he missed all last offseason and now he’s going to miss this whole offseason. So the idea he’s got to get stronger … well, when? Next year?” Jackson is from Phoenix. His grandfather, Mel, started at RG for Green Bay in 1977-’78.

    5. ISAIAH WILSON, Georgia (6-6 ½, 350, 5.37, 1-2): Wilson is a third-year sophomore with 24 starts at RT. “He’s just gigantic,” said one scout. “Size is his best friend. He is so big. Not top-flight foot movement but good enough for being that big. He’s strong and he’s tough. I doubt that (first round). That would shock me.” He played opposite Thomas, giving the Bulldogs possibly the nation’s heaviest line. “Like him,” another scout said. “He’s massive. He moves good. He’s got great length. I think he’s a starting right tackle and will play for a while.” Arms were 35 ½, hands were 10 ¼. “He is one tough, nasty guy,” said a third scout. “I guess you could play him on the left side and get by with him.” He posted a 28 on the Wonderlic. “He wasn’t ready to come out,” said a fourth scout. “He needed another year. He’s really susceptible to a good bull rush. For being such a big human being there’s some functional lightness to that guy. He looks like a big mountain of a man but he doesn’t play real heavy. You can take him down the middle.” Wilson is from Brooklyn, N.Y. Added a fifth scout: “He is big but he’s so bad technique. He ducks his head, he bends at the waist. But that (guy) is big. He could be a star or bust.”

    6. EZRA CLEVELAND, Boise State (6-6, 311, 4.97, 1-2): Cleveland is a three-year starter at LT. “He’s a really good athlete,” said one scout. “He’ll be a solid pass protector. I think he’s steady. He tested out really well. He’ll be close to the first (round). Tackles go.” Lightly recruited out of Spanaway, Wash. “He reminds me of some of the guys Green Bay has had over the years,” said a second scout. “(Bryan) Bulaga, (David) Bakhtiari, guys that kind of are just functional and get the job done. They’re not spectacular, just steady … if Cleveland didn’t have to interview people would really like him. But his interview was so low energy and just kind of flat line that it kind of just scared people. He’s so Steady Eddie. It’s not that he’s a bad guy at all. Cleveland … he’s Boise, he’s a junior, he’s got to get stronger. But he is athletic.” He played most of 2019 with turf toe injury. Led tackles in five categories: the 40, Wonderlic (30), bench press (30), short shuttle (4.46) and 3-cone (7.26). Arms were just 33 3/8, hands were a tiny 9. “Everybody’s high on him,” said another scout. “Why am I not that high on him? There’s a degree of tightness in his hips. Has balance issues. I question his lower-body strength. Not going to beat point-of-attack defenders. Finesse guy that uses his size. Size defenders knock him around. I question his lateral adjust. But guys like him.”

    7. JOSH JONES, Houston (6-5, 319, 5.28, 2): Spent five years with the Cougars, starting at LT from 2016-’19. “He almost left Houston as a grad transfer,” one scout said. “He was fed up with all the coaching changes and no continuity or stability. He stayed one more year and it paid off for him. He’s a basketball-background guy. This was his real year of production and got on the radar of people. He’s athletic. Sort of technique-flawed. It’ll take him a little time to get it all buttoned up. He’s a serviceable, functional NFL tackle. You can get by with him, I think.” He posted a Wonderlic score of 14 and his arms were 33 7/8, hands were 10 1/8. “Understands how to use his hands in pass pro,” said a second scout. “Struggles to move guys at the point of attack. Inconsistent.” Didn’t start playing football until his sophomore year of high school in Richmond, Texas. “He’s not a kid you want to sign off on completely,” a third scout said. “He definitely showed flashes of talent. He’s a little bit inconsistent. Pass pro’s his thing. His run blocking is a little iffy.”

    8. MATT PEART, Connecticut (6-6 ½, 318, 5.10, 2-3): He should be a starter in his second season, according to one scout. “He really surprised me,” said one scout. “I haven’t watched them (Connecticut) in years. They may be the worst program in the country. But he has great feet. He’s a natural left tackle. No punch as a run blocker. Better tenacity than strength. Heck of a pass blocker.” Born in Jamaica, Peart emigrated to the U.S. in 2002. “There’s good and bad with him,” a second scout said. “Probably the longest guy (36 5/8 arms) in the draft. He’s got a big basketball player’s build. But he doesn’t have any strength. He’s not a throwaway. If somebody gets him in a good strength program … He’s got interests outside of football, which isn’t typical for an offensive lineman. He’s not a bad kid; you just want to make sure he’s committed. He has developmental starter ability.” He started at RT in 2016-’17 and at LT in 2018-’19. Name me an offensive lineman for UConn in the last 25 years,” said a third scout. “Just name one.” Peart posted a Wonderlic of 20.

    9. PRINCE TEGA WANOGHO, Auburn (6-5, 305, no 40, 2-3): Their calling card is the ability to negate the up-field rush, according to one scout, but struggles mightily against counter moves inside. “He’ll be a second-round pick,” another scout said. “He’s close to the first. He’s real quick. He’s got short arms (33 ½), which is concerning. Good agility, good movement, good effort.”He came to the U.S. from Nigeria in August 2014 to play basketball in Montgomery, Ala. “He doesn’t know that much about football,” said another scout. “He’s going to (need) some reps. He’s not ready to play right now. He’s not going to be an instant asset to you, but he will become a starter. I’d take a chance on him in the second round.” Teams expressed concern about an injury history that includes a tibia-fibula fracture in 2015 and arthroscopic knee surgery in January. Spent five years at Auburn, starting 32 games at LT. “Doesn’t play with urgency,” said another scout. “Constantly late out of his stance. Has issues at the second level. He’s got a little work to do.”

    10. LUCAS NIANG, TCU (6-6, 315, no 40, 4): Niang made 27 starts at RT over the past three seasons. “He’s a big, talented guy, but he’s inconsistent,” one scout said. “You would like a guy as big as him to be a little more dominant. I don’t want to go so far as to say he’s not tough, but he’s not as tough as he should be for as big as he is. That plays into who the kid is. He comes from money. He doesn’t have to have football. Some of these guys are living for it. I don’t know if that’s the case with him. He does have starter talent.” Regarded as a distinct medical concern for several teams because of a labrum tear in his hip that required surgery in October. “He’s a strong, very physical right tackle,” another scout said. “He’s an adequate pass blocker but doesn’t have the feet to play left tackle. He’s the type of guy that plays.” From New Canaan, Conn, he’s lived in Switzerland and is fluent in French.

    OTHERS, in order: Saahdiq Charles, LSU; Jack Driscoll, Auburn; Yasir Durant, Missouri; Charlie Heck, North Carolina; Alex Taylor, South Carolina State; Colton McKivitz, West Virginia; Trey Adams, Washington; Tyre Phillips, Mississippi State; Terence Steele, Texas Tech; Blake Brandel, Oregon State; Anthony McKinney, TCU; Drew Richmond, USC.

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  8. Flash

    Flash Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    GUARDS
    1. TRISTAN WIRFS, Iowa (6-5, 320, 4.87, 1): Wirfs is a third-year junior from Mount Vernon, Iowa (pop. 4,000). “All-state wrestler,” said one scout. “May be a better guard. Strong, physical run blocker. Has enough size and strength not to get bull-rushed. Strong hips. You may start him at right tackle, but eventually you’ll move him inside to guard.” Made 29 starts at RT, four at LT. “After he tested at the combine people started saying, ‘He can play left tackle,’” said another scout. “There’s no verifiable evidence of that. He was not good at left tackle for Iowa.” He blew out the combine with guard-bests in the 40, vertical jump (36 ½) and broad jump (10-1). “You can play him anywhere you want,” a third scout said. “He’s really good. He had great numbers at the combine but other than blocking the inside power move all he needs is technique. He’ll be a star.” He posted a Wonderlic of 23. “He’s a better athlete than football player at this point,” said a fourth scout. “He isn’t your typical polished Iowa NFL-ready guy from a technique and awareness standpoint. He’s not ready to play. Where you draft him you’re going to have to plug him in and start him, and he’s going to lose you some games next year. But he’s obviously a phenomenal test athlete so some team will get enamored with that. The tape is really up and down.”

    2. ROBERT HUNT, Louisiana (6-5, 323, no 40, 2): Started at LG in 2016-’17 and at RT in 2018-’19. “Tough guy,” said one scout. “Got some initial pop. He can strike you. Not an elite athlete. Got some waist-bend issues. But there’s a lot to work with.” His chances for an early selection took a hit because of a groin injury that required surgery in January and cost him the last seven games and post-season participation. “Had he been able to go to the Senior Bowl and showed out against tough competition he might be a guy we’re talking about late in the first round,” another scout said. “He plays with a mean streak. He’s powerful. He can move people.” His Wonderlic score of 13 was second-lowest among the top guards. “He’s actually much more football smart than you want to give him credit for,” said a third scout. “He’s going to go pretty high because he can play four positions. He’s a little bit rough around the edges. You don’t want to rush him. You don’t want to depend on him to do too much. Maybe third round, but tackles usually get overdrafted so second wouldn’t surprise me.” From Burkeville, Texas.

    3. SHANE LeMIEUX, Oregon (6-4, 308, 5.12, 3): Started all 52 games at LG from 2016-’19. “That is a tough, competitive bastard,” one scout said. “It surprised me. I wouldn’t think coming out of the Oregon offense there would be a guy like this from what they do. But this guy’s mean. He’s limited athletically a little bit. He’s got straight-line speed but some stiffness. Once you get him out in space he struggles a little bit. He’s more of a power-game player.” Short arms (32 ¼), relatively smaller hands (9 ½). Two scouts said he reminded them of Richie Incognito. “Just style of play, nasty, strong hands, sturdy in pass pro — not all the other stuff (with Incognito),” said one. “Not the most agile in space. Grit, finishing to the whistle, that’s him. Realistically, he’ll probably go third, fourth round. Wherever he goes, I think he’s a starter.” He’s from Yakima, Wash. “Sort of a meat-and-potatoes guard,” said a third scout. “Probably a one-spot guy. You can’t move him all over the place. He’s solid. He’ll be an NFL starter.”

    4. JONAH JACKSON, Ohio State (6-3 ½, 306, 5.26, 3): Jackson started for 1 ½ seasons before graduating from Rutgers and playing a final season at the other end of the Big Ten standings as a grad transfer. “You walked on the field at Ohio State and looked at the offensive linemen and you could pick out the guy from Rutgers right away,” said one scout. “He’s got a horrible body. He’s a little bit behind having been at Rutgers. The beginning-of-the-year film wasn’t as good in a new scheme. But then, by the end of the year, he was playing well, and he did well at the Senior Bowl. He doesn’t do everything pretty, but he’s a good football player. He’s a great, great guy, and he’s got some mean to him.” Started 16 games for the Scarlet Knights, mostly at RG but also three times at center, before moving to LG in Columbus. “I hate Rutgers players, but that Jackson kid, he’ll play 10 years,” said another scout. “He’s a tough (guy) and he’s smart.” From Media, Pa.

    5. BEN BARTCH, St. John’s (Minn.) (6-5 ½, 309, 5.16, 3): Reminiscent of Ali Marpet, an NCAA Division III guard from Hobart (N.Y.) who was the Buccaneers’ second-round pick in 2015. Marpet is a five-year interior starter for Tampa Bay. “He’s the best small-school guy since Ali Marpet,” said one personnel man. “This Bartch kid may surprise everybody. They go down to the Senior Bowl and they either wilt or they fit in. He fit in.” Bartch made four receptions in two seasons as a backup TE for the Johnnies, located in Collegeville, Minn., before adding weight and making the move to LT in 2018. He also played tackle in Mobile but some teams say his arm length (32 7/8) is better suited inside. “He liked the weight room,” said another scout. “He put on a ton of weight (he was 280 last spring). It’s a small-college weight room, and he had to eat on his own and all that stuff. I think he did the most that he possibly could with his development. He’s an intriguing guy, for sure. He has the temperament that you want.” Bartch is from McMinnville. Ore.

    6. DAMIEN LEWIS, LSU (6-2, 327, 5.24, 3-4): Lewis played two seasons of junior-college ball before starting all 28 games at RG from 2018-’19 for LSU. “Like him,” said one scout. “He is f—— powerful. He’s short, but he’s compact. The key with him is, will he be able to play center? He’s a really good Day 3 guy. He’s too short but he’ll end up playing for somebody.” His ability to play center might hinge on his ability to make the line calls. His Wonderlic score of 11 was low among the top guards. “Wasn’t crazy about him,” said another scout. “Typical big, slow guy. Competes. Wasn’t much there.” Lewis is from Canton, Miss.

    7. JOHN SIMPSON, Clemson (6-4, 320, 5.26, 4): Simpson backed up for two years before starting all 29 games at LG in 2018-’19. “There are some flashes of him controlling or pressing out defensive linemen but also inconsistencies,” said one scout. “Lacks true explosive power off the ball and shock on contact.” Weighed 336 a year ago. “He’s tough but he has no feet,” said a second scout. “Clemson’s offensive line, with the exception of the (sophomore) left tackle, was not good.” Had the most bench-press reps (34), the longest arms (34 1/8) and the biggest hands (11 ¼) among the top guards. “He did just enough to keep you interested,” said a third scout. “Problem is, he’s a guard only. That reduces his value.” From Charleston, S.C.

    8. HAKEEM ADENIJI, Kansas (6-4 ½, 301, 5.18, 4): Four-year starter at LT. “I like that guy,” one scout said. “He’s developed a lot over the last two years and has more to go. Maybe the volatility of that program has held him back a little bit. He had four different offensive line coaches during his time there. Smart kid, good kid, good athlete, has the right size, has the right feet, has the right length (33 ¾ arms). I think he’ll start out at guard, but ultimately I think he’d be better as a tackle because he’s more long and athletic than strong and stout.” His Wonderlic score of 34 led the top-10 guards and he had a strong week at the Senior Bowl. “I don’t like him,” said another scout. “Small-boned athlete. Not a very strong player. Hips get high in pass protection. Wish I saw better control of his body. Doesn’t always finish. … He just kind of creeps around and gets in the way. He’d be an oozer, too.” From Garland, Texas.

    9. KEVIN DOTSON, Louisiana (6-4, 313, no 40, 4-5): Dotson wasn’t invited to the combine. “He’s very intriguing,” said one scout. “He’s going to be one of the first non-combine guys taken. He’s physical. He doesn’t give up any pressure. One of the more productive players in that conference (Sun Belt).” He started 52 of 53 games at RG. Dotson, who’s from East Iberville, La., is the son of a high school coach. His two uncles, DT Alvin McKinley and FB Dennis McKinley, were drafted in the middle rounds and had substantial NFL careers. Short arms (32 ½) but big hands (10 5/8). “He’s got stiff ankles,” another scout said. “Non-athletic power guard. Phone-booth kind of player. He might be a late pick.”

    10. LOGAN STENBERG, Kentucky (6-6, 317, 5.34, 4-5): Stenberg was a three-year starter at LG. “Remember Joe Jacoby and Conrad Dobler, guys like that?” one scout said. “He’s an old-time player. They just want to get in the dirt. I’m sure if he doesn’t get 60 pins a game he’s had a bad game. Tough, nasty, mauler type. Questionable lateral quickness and change of direction. I don’t like this guy as an athlete, but I like him as a player. These guys line up and play.” He has short arms (32 ½) and was heavily penalized, but he’s durable. Another scout calls Stenberg, from Madison, Ala, a “country boy … he has a pickup truck, chews tobacco. Mother’s a teacher, father’s retired Army lieutenant colonel. Has a farm now and raises cattle. Smart kid.”

    OTHERS, in order: Ben Bredeson, Michigan; Netane Muti, Fresno State; Tremayne Anchrum, Clemson; Michael Onwenu, Michigan; Cameron Clark, Charlotte; Jon Runyan, Michigan; John Molchon, Boise State; Solomon Kindley, Georgia; Kyle Murphy, Rhode Island; Cordel Iwuagwu, TCU; Simon Stepaniak, Indiana.

    (continued in next reply)
     
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  9. Flash

    Flash Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    CENTERS
    1. CESAR RUIZ, Michigan (6-2 ½, 307, 5.11, 1-2): Ruiz started five games at RG as a true freshman and then all 26 at center the past two seasons before declaring a year early. “I think he’s going to be a Pro Bowl center,” said one scout. He had a long afternoon against Alabama’s Raekwon Davis in the Citrus Bowl, according to one scout. “He’s like a (Garrett) Bradbury,” the scout said. “He’s really going to be excellent for a zone team because he’s so quick. Really got to the second level. Only negative I had was the strength thing. He just had OK strength. He’ll have problems like Bradbury has problems, but he can do all the stuff that Bradbury did.” Led the centers in vertical jump (33), broad jump (9-5), bench press (28) and hand size (11). His arms were 33 1/8. “He’s the top center,” said a third scout. “Right at prototype from the size and the length. He’s got good feet and movement skills. Smart, strong, good hands.” He posted a Wonderlic score of 21. “We have some division on him,” said a fourth scout. “I think he will be a starter. I don’t know if he’ll be a win-with starter. I don’t think he’s a great athlete. He is strong, really strong naturally. He didn’t measure as big as we thought he’d be. He’s better than Mason Cole as a center. He wasn’t a guy that excited me, but there’s only 32 centers.” Ruiz is from Camden, N.J.

    2. LLOYD CUSHENBERRY, LSU (6-3, 312, 5.28, 2-3): Cushenberry, from Carvilla, La., is a fourth-year junior and a two-year starter. “He’ll be a Pro Bowl center,” said one scout. “His wingspan (84 ¼ inches) is the longest I’ve ever seen on a center. Phenomenal kid. Held his own against (Javon) Kinlaw in the one-on-one’s (at the Senior Bowl). He’s about the only one that did that. … Elgton Jenkins played great for the Packers (in 2019), but Cushenberry is a better prospect than Jenkins.” Made himself some money in Mobile. “I thought he was kind of a heavy-footed player,” another scout said. “At the Senior Bowl, he showed he had feet like a dancing bear. Now I think he’s going in the second. He’s got an anchor ass to him. Plays like a good athlete.” Longest arms (34 1/8) among centers, hands were 10 3/8. “He’s not displacing anybody (in the run game),” said another scout. “Can become a good depth player.” He posted a Wonderlic of 15. “He can anchor and has length,” a fourth scout said. “He does some nice things, but he gets beat too much when isolated.”

    3. MATT HENNESSY, Temple (6-4, 307, 5.18, 3-4): Hennessy is a fourth-year junior and three-year starter. “He’s a really good technician,” said one scout. “Really light on his feet. He can bend. He’s tough. High intangibles. Not powerful, but not deficient.” Hennessy is from Bardonia, N.Y. and “people love him,” another scout said. “He worked out really well. Little bit physically overmatched but plays hard, gets after it, tough guy.” His Wonderlic of 34 was tops among centers. Arms were merely 32 ¼. “I thought he was fifth, sixth round,” a third scout said. “He’s not very big. He got tossed around. Their blocking scheme at Temple is everybody goes left or everybody goes right. Pass block, run block. You’re just sealing a gap. It’s not like taking somebody head-on all then time. I didn’t see him play to any of his numbers. He’s a good football player, but I think he’s a backup.”

    4. DANNY PINTER, Ball State (6-4, 306, 4.88, 4-5): Pinter played TE in 2016-’17 (nine receptions) before moving to RT in the 2018 off-season. “He’s got 31 7/8 arms,” said one scout. “That’s why I made him a center. He’s going to make a hell of a center.” Center is purely a projection. “He worked out well,” said a second scout. “He’s a good athlete. But you’re talking about a guy from Ball State that you’re going to fall in love with as a center and you’ve never seen him play center?” He posted a Wonderlic of 27. “He can play center, which he’s been working at,” a third scout said. “Got all the intangibles for center. He’s athletic, super tough, really a competitive guy. Goes for the finish. Will take some work to develop him where he can play guard, too. He’s never done it. Awesome kid.” From South Bend, Ind.

    5. NICK HARRIS, Washington (6-1, 302, 5.13, 5-6): Harris made 17 starts at guard in 2016-’17 before starting 25 games at center in 2018-’19. “He looks awful on the hoof,” one scout said. “He’s just a pear-shaped, bad-body guy. But you put the tape on and he’s a damn good player.” Harris is durable and smart (Wonderlic of 30). His arms were 32 1/8. “He’s fine, he’s a good athlete,” another scout said. “But I hope we play him.” Harris is from Inglewood, Calif. “I love him, but he’s small,” said a third scout. “He super smart, gets to the second level, all that. But it seems like every time he measured in somewhere he lost an inch. I think he’ll play because of who he is. I thought he’d be a second- or third-round pic but with those measurables it’ll scare teams off.”

    OTHERS, in order: Keith Ismael, San Diego State; Tyler Biadasz, Wisconsin; Darryl Williams, Mississippi State; Trystan Colon-Castillo, Missouri; Cohl Cabral, Arizona State; Justin Herron, Wake Forest; Jake Hanson, Oregon.

    THE SKINNY
    UNSUNG HERO

    Trey Adams, T, Washington: The course of his career was altered in October 2017 when he suffered a torn ACL in a non-contact injury. Then he needed season-ending lumbar disc surgery two games into 2018. Adams (6-8, 318) returned to start at LT in ’19 but wasn’t effective and then ran 5.60 at the combine. “He was a sure-fire No. 1 pick in ’17,” said one scout. “After that he was a shadow of himself. Even when he walks now he looks like he’s still limping.”

    SCOUTS’ NIGHTMARE

    Saahdiq Charles, T, LSU: This is a first-round talent. Charles (6-4, 321, 4.98), a three-year starter at LG, has terrific feet, flexibility and body control. “Nobody ever beats this guy,” said one scout. “…But guys might get scared away from this dude.” Multiple failed drugs for marijuana led to a six-game suspension last season.

    SCOUT TO REMEMBER
    Joe Woolley: A long, tall Arkansan, he was a successful prep coach in Texas and then a scouting/personnel director for the Oilers, Saints, Eagles and Cardinals for about 20 years. One of Bum Phillips’ favorite people, Woolley worked under him in Houston and New Orleans before going to Philly and Phoenix with Buddy Ryan. In New Orleans, he was responsible for establishing an extensive film library that became a model for the NFL. Never one for a loss for words, Woolley loved to wisecrack at draft time. When asked about Wayne Simmons, the combustible linebacker from Clemson, not long before the 1993 draft, Woolley drawled, “Keep him sober and not beating up bartenders and he’ll be all right. He’s got a little shaky character in him but I’ll tell you what. I’d rather have them f—— that will fight than those that won’t.” Awaiting a heart transplant that never came, he died in 2003 at age 65.

    QUOTE TO NOTE
    NFL executive in personnel: “Here’s the problem. Those guys at (Louisiana) Lafayette and Temple and Houston and Florida Atlantic, they have never seen an NFL defensive lineman. They never have gone against one in those leagues. They don’t know what one looks like. It’s called level of competition. That’s why I watch SEC film. Even Big Ten guys play against better competition than they do.”
     
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  10. primetime

    primetime PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think Bartch is one of those guys who teams will like a lot but won't draft til the 3rd or 4th because using a 2nd on a D3 guy and having him bust will make you look bad. Just logival fallacy type stuff.
     
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  11. captain stone

    captain stone Pro Bowl Player

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    Tip o' the scally to those who had suggested - on the very day it happened - that Bill should've simply kept his 1st-rounder in 2017 and drafted Nate (last year of his contract) Solder's replacement - exactly as Solder was drafted in 2011 to be Matt Light's replacement, and Joel Bitonio should've been in 2014 to be Mankin$' replacement - in Ramczyk, and not traded for one season of the Lost Little Cookie, which also included a vig of both a 3rd-round & a 4th-round pick...
     
  12. captain stone

    captain stone Pro Bowl Player

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    Um...Will Beatty? Didn't take me long - as in, at all - Mr Scout (hope he doesn't work for us).
     
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  13. captain stone

    captain stone Pro Bowl Player

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    Now there's a scout that I'm positive doesn't work for us...
     
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    Last edited: Apr 27, 2020
  14. captain stone

    captain stone Pro Bowl Player

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    Surprised at the little amount of love that Tyler Biadasz was shown here...they must feel that his shoulder might still not be ready...

    Also a little surprised how low Jon Runyan was placed among the Guards...still believe he can stay outside too...
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2020
  15. BaconGrundleCandy

    BaconGrundleCandy PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    One thing to remember concerning "scouts".
    They're basically knighted at will by a team. I remember the Fins making Matt Moore a "scout" and sent him to look at Murray, Haskins etc.
    Probably a very smart guy in terms of football but is he really a scout?

    I always take those quotes with a grain of salt when someone's name isn't on it.

    I'll say it's not uncommon though. Teams do this a lot with former players, QBs even if they're not "scouts" in name. Teams will lean on guys they trust and know their system.
     
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  16. pats_premi

    pats_premi Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Flash. The information that you provided is appreciated, but be careful with the copyrights.
     
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  17. bakes781

    bakes781 In the Starting Line-Up

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    I'm seeing Ruiz any where from mid 1st to mid 2nd and with no 2nd I just think we can't take the chance of him falling beyond that. Cesar Ruiz is my top choice. Jack Driscoll looks like a good fit on day 3.
     
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  18. BaconGrundleCandy

    BaconGrundleCandy PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Again I'm very happy. I might go A but let's call it a B/B+.
     
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  19. captain stone

    captain stone Pro Bowl Player

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    Boy, did Little Billy completely Feck Up the Offensive Line picks or what?
     

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